Lou Dobbs Tonight with Congressman Gutierrez
Aired November 28, 2007 - 19:00 ET
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0711/28/ldt.01.html
DOBBS: Casey Wian, thank you very much. We appreciate it.
Coming up next, a lawmaker who's pushing an open border amnesty agenda with legislation to give citizenship to millions of illegal aliens and one of our most decorated military commanders gives us his assessment of Pentagon plans to keep tens of thousands of our troops in Iraq indefinitely.
Republican presidential candidates squaring off tonight in less than 30 minutes in Florida for the CNN You Tube republican presidential debate. We're coming right back.
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DOBBS: One of Illinois's leading congressman, Congressman Luis Gutierrez, is the chairman of the Democratic Caucus Immigration Task Force. He's also author of legislation that would put millions of illegal aliens on a path to citizenship. And we're pleased to have Congressman Gutierrez with us here tonight. Good to be in your district, your home city.
REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ (D), ILLINOIS: Thank you.
DOBBS: It's great to be here. Let's start with your legislation, along With Congressman Flake. You've got, what, 79 sponsors right now in the house. Do you believe it's going to see the light of day? Is it going to be passed?
GUTIERREZ: I think it's necessary that the democratic congress, this democratically controlled congress take up the legislation to show the courage and to show the fortitude that it should on such a vital and important issue as comprehensive immigration reform. I don't know if they're going to show that kind of courage. I mean, we ran saying we would bring about comprehensive immigration reform. We are the majority. We shouldn't wait for the minority. We should act.
DOBBS: The democratic leadership, let's be honest, in both the house and senate absolutely looked like a pack of fools. They haven't done anything. Your poll ratings in both the house and the senate are devastatingly low, historic low levels. It's just a little over a year ago that that leadership was voted in by the people. It's got to be of great concern to you guys to see the democratic leadership on the senate immigration reform, twice in a row, to lose that vote with a republican president pushing it. What's the point? At what point does the Democratic Party in this country understand the American people won't stand for amnesty?
GUTIERREZ: Here's what I think. I think that in the senate, they have attempted it twice. One time it did pass. The house failed to act when the republicans --
DOBBS: The house bill.
GUTIERREZ: Yeah, the house bill.
DOBBS: The senate --
GUTIERREZ: The senate did approve comprehensive immigration reform when the democrats were in charge in the last congress. In this congress, they failed to acquire the 60 necessary votes. But I will say that 80% of the democrats in the democratic majority in the senate did vote for comprehensive immigration reform. It was the failure of the president and republicans to join them --
DOBBS: What about the will of the majority in this country, Congressman? Why is it the democratic leadership, these democratic presidential candidates, every one of them, pushing comprehensive immigration reform which your office said would be a disaster? You continue to push for it as if the American people don't mean a damn thing to you. What happened to the idea of the majority rules in this country?
GUTIERREZ: I think that if you look at poll after poll, when the American people have spoken, they believe in comprehensive immigration reform.
DOBBS: You're not looking at --
GUTIERREZ: Well, I -- poll after poll has indicated that when you address the American people and you ask them what do you want done, they say we want our borders secure, we want internal security, and checks, and you ask them, should there be a pathway for legalization for those that are already here spending a number of years and haven't committed any other crime, pay a penalty, learn English, get to the back of the line, most of the American people say that sounds like a reasonable approach. As a matter of fact, Lou, the enforcement measures have been so great during the last year, that this past year 270,000 people were deported from the United States. That's an increase of 120,000 people from last year. But even at that rate, Lou, it will take 40 years to deport 12 million people.
DOBBS: That really isn't an issue, and you know that. Come on. Nobody's calling for deportation of 20 million illegal aliens.
GUTIERREZ: Well, yes, they are calling for it.
DOBBS: Who? Name one person.
GUTIERREZ: Tancredo.
DOBBS: He's calling for it?
GUTIERREZ: He's calling for their massive deportation. So is Bilbray and so are many others in the congress of the United States. I didn't make that up. That's what they think should happen. The problem is they have never come forward with a plan that would actually --
DOBBS: Why is it the democrats can't see their way to saying we're going to secure the borders and ports of this country first and we're going to take control of those borders and ports so we can control immigration, so if we were to reform immigration, which we know is a sham in every effort put forth so far, we'll reserve yours, we'll reserve yours, why not secure those borders and put the discussion of immigration law reform on the table and take care of the nation's business first?
GUTIERREZ: Because that's what where we disagree.
DOBBS: Okay. But why?
GUTIERREZ: I'm going to answer that question. What we disagree on is not whether we should have secure borders. Not whether we should have a biometric system. Not whether my social security card, my dad's social security card, and my grandfather's social security is using the same technology, we should use the biometric system --
DOBBS: Why the biometrics?
GUTIERREZ: That is in my bill. When you introduce me today --
DOBBS: The question is this, congressman --
GUTIERREZ: No, Lou --
DOBBS: I get to ask the questions.
GUTIERREZ: It's America's airwaves.
DOBBS: In point in fact, the American people can be the arbiters. I asked a question.
GUTIERREZ: I'm trying to answer it.
DOBBS: I asked you, why will you not secure our borders and our ports as a condition precedent to immigration reform law?
GUTIERREZ: Because it will fail if that's all you do. Because Lou, you will still have 12 million people in this country, we don't know where they live, we don't know where they bank, we don't have any vital information on them. You have 12 million people walking around this country and you feel secure without knowing who they are? Without having their fingerprints? Without having --
DOBBS: Thanks to you --
GUTIERREZ: A process so we can identify who they are? I think that's vitally important. And we know if you deported 12 million people tomorrow and they vanished from the United States of America, it would cripple certain sectors of our economy.
DOBBS: Name one.
GUTIERREZ: Agriculture.
DOBBS: It would not. It won't even begin to.
GUTIERREZ: Our own department of agriculture, our own department of labor, our undocumented workers this country --
DOBBS: Wouldn't even begin to.
GUTIERREZ: It would, Lou. Okay. But here's the point.
DOBBS: What would happen if -- we have seven minutes, Congressman. Give me your best shot.
GUTIERREZ: I'm going to give you the best shot. When you introduced me today, you introduced me very kindly. And I appreciate that. But it was a little incorrect in that you said, and here's Luis Gutierrez who wants all the undocumented workers to have a pathway to citizenship. That's true. But the first 180 pages of my legislation is about border security, internal security. As a matter of fact, when Flake and I introduced that legislation, it has more security measures than the Heath Shuler proposal currently before the congress of the United States. We're all for security. So our difference is, how do you piece this together. Not what the pieces are.
DOBBS: And my answer, Congressman is, you're over complicating a straightforward issue. Secure our borders, secure our ports. Just for the following reasons, because that southern border is the principal source of methamphetamines, cocaine, heroin, and marijuana into this country. It would be a major step toward ending the war on drugs. And number two, to stop illegal immigration. Number three, we're now six years past September 11th and no one in this congress and this administration can possibly stand before the American people and rationalize the fact that 95% of the cargo entering this country is not inspected, that we still have a border in which millions of people are crossing that border.
GUTIERREZ: And we have -- and the issue is that half of the undocumented workers in the United States of America did not cross that border.
DOBBS: Forty percent.
GUTIERREZ: But you want to focus simply on the border. So if we secured the border --
DOBBS: I said ports.
GUTIERREZ: You said ports and borders.
DOBBS: Borders.
GUTIERREZ: No, no, you always talk about Mexican border.
DOBBS: No ...
GUTIERREZ: You never speak about the Canadian border. You haven't spoken about the Canadian border during this conversation. It's always Mexico and drugs.
DOBBS: Wait, use the ...
GUTIERREZ: I didn't make that.
DOBBS: Come on. Get in the game.
GUTIERREZ: No, I won't.
DOBBS: Come on. Your friend Josh Hoyt --
GUTIERREZ: I won't.
DOBBS: Come on.
GUTIERREZ: I won't.
DOBBS: Just give me one shot.
GUTIERREZ: This is too serious an issue for the American people, for me, to use --
DOBBS: Forget the nonsense and get to the American people.
GUTIERREZ: Here you go again, calling me socioethnocentric ...
DOBBS: Absolutely. Can I ask you a question? Let me ask you a question.
GUTIERREZ: You're the one that keeps mentioning Mexico.
DOBBS: Let me ask you a question.
GUTIERREZ: You here on this program say that 40% of the undocumented workers did not cross that border. Yet you never emphasize what we need to do in order to control them. I do have that in my legislation.
DOBBS: Here we go. The reason I focus on Mexico is more than 60% of the illegal aliens in this country are from Mexico. The reason I focus on the border with Mexico is because it is the principle source of methamphetamines, heroin, cocaine, and marijuana into this country. And you find that --
GUTIERREZ: No, I find it --
DOBBS: I find it amazing that you could possibly ignore it.
GUTIERREZ: I ask the American people, I hope you Tivoed this, because I never raised the issue of race here whatsoever.
DOBBS: No, I'm asking you --
GUTIERREZ: I didn't do it here. Nor will I ever.
DOBBS: You're very kind. GUTIERREZ: Thank you.
DOBBS: And you're almost alone amongst the open borders amnesty state lobby.
GUTIERREZ: Thank you.
DOBBS: Coming up next, the liberal "New York Times" has declared Lou Dobbs is winning. Congressman Gutierrez would agree. But that's not all. I'll have something to say about that as well.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.